Short (I hope!) comparison between Speculative Fiction
Space Navies and Armies

First, I would re-iterate my theory that the Navy ranks used
in 'Star Wars' basically reflect the in-theatre operations
of a particular sector. The reason this is is due to the apparent
low positions of the rank of 'Captain', which is more comparable
to said rank in Terran Armies (i.e below Major and above Lieutenant),
in the 'Star Wars' universe.

But this whole confusion described in previous posts misses the
point suggested in the actual movies, which is explicitly referred
to by Tarkin, which is that the 'fear of force, not force itself',
is all that is required to police the Galaxy. It is only sources
connected with the Expanded Universe which indicate a much
larger Imperial Army.*

This discrepancy could have two points/explanations: The
Imperial Army could refer to the COMPNOR organisation [or
its (presuming it has one) paramilitary wing]: the ideological
and propaganda (in short) wing of the Empire (COMmission for
the Preservation of the New ORder);

Or it could simply reflect a commonality in "soft" SF.
All space Navies in other fictional 'verses tend all to be of
comparable size**, regardless of the apparent population of
each society described, but they all seemingly have an infinite
capacity (in terms of either technology, manpower or both) to
construct starships and other materiel.

The 'Starfleet' of the UFP of "Star Trek" is a good example of this:
a body which has a fairly small fleet compared to its population,
but much smaller than the Imperial Fleet in "Star Wars", and yet
a very high productive capacity for constructing starships.
Even higher than either the Galactic Empire or even the
'Culture'. Maybe that's what they do with all the unemployed
people?

Saying that, I think "Star Wars" does put this military
trope on its head: 'Starfleet' is a very large military
body for a supposedly non-militaristic society and the
apparent manpower of the Galactic Empire is probably
reasonable considering a) its vast population, easily
a million times that of the UFP's Human population
and b) THEY USE DROIDS ffs! unlike in 'Star Trek'
( and no factory ships or GSVs in "Star Trek" unlike
the 'Culture' novels). Anyway, my COMPNOR theory
probably makes sense: most discrepancies in the 'Expanded
Universe' can be more or less explained.

Of course, this is another excuse for me to have a go
at "Star Trek" but hey the evidence is there.

*Of course all we see in the actual movies are Clone-
and Storm Trooper units but, supposedly,
the Stormtrooper corps is a separate entity from both the
Imp Army and Navy (perhaps 'Navy' and 'Army' refers to two
Officer corps, either of which has direct authority over
non-commissioned troops/crews)

**The 'Earth Alliance' (Babylon 5, Human population is explicitly
less than 10 billion) has about 8000 warships and thousands of
support vessels and tenders/troop carriers, 'Starfleet' has
probably 20K starships and 40K science vessels [plus thousands
of transports, shuttles, unmanned drone transports etc] while
the Galactic Empire has (quoting Han Solo) 2000+ Destroyer-class
vessels, albeit thousands more cruisers, tenders
and shuttles and a population in the thousands of trillions.

Ranking System of the Galactic Empire

Using "A New Hope", "Empire Strikes Back" and wookiepedia as
sources gives the following titled [and assumed] ranks:
1. Grand Admiral
2. Grand Moff
3. Moff
4. Lord
5. Admiral
[6. Vice Admiral]
[7. Rear Admiral]
10. Captain
12. Ensign;
bearing in mind that in the Clone Wars and in the Rebel Alliance,
the rank of 'Captain' is below both 'Commander' and 'General':
'Commander' being apparently equivalent to anything between a
Colonel and a Major-General in Terran armies.

Ensign is included in this list as, apparently,
'Lieutenant' is the lowest commissioned Imperial rank.
An explanation follows in that it is possible that the
three 'Warrant Officer' grades are both promotions from
lower ranks and starting grades for officers graduating
below the 'Lieutenant' requirement. An 'Ensign' may be a
Warrant Officer in command of a section, particular shift
or a platoon. It is suggested that the rank of 'Captain'
does exist, but has two grades.

With other actual quoted ranks being (also
using "A New Hope" and wookiepedia as sources):

5. Marshall
6. General
7. Colonel
8. Major
9. Commander
11. Lieutenant
12. Senior-
13. Master-
14. Warrant Officer
15. Sergeant
16. Staff Corporal
17. Corporal
18. Trooper

As is apparent there is a large discrepancy between
the positions of certain ranks in relation to one
another, especially as the insignia used in the
Imperial Navy and Captain Piett's promotion
to Admiral would suggest otherwise.

It could obviously be suggested that there are in fact
two chains of command in existence, but both Imperial
Army and Naval divisions in each Sector

(of which there are between 20 and 1024; the priority regions
set up by Palpatine towards the end of the Clone Wars
or the sector system used by the Old Republic)

are all under the command of the particular system's
governor, or 'Moff', so in terms of each sector
they are under the same chain-of-command. This also
allows for "official" ranks to reflect the vast
size of the Imperial military.

The simplest answer is that the Imperial Army ranks
reflect the number of troops (and Stormtroopers
in particular are seen being led by Naval officers)
at an officer's disposal while, and this is basically
indicated by the seeming lack of consistency in the Naval
insignia used by officers, the flag ranks used in the
Navy likely represent a position in the sector
fleet but has little relation to one's overall rank
in the Imperial Military.

The types of insignia (below) used probably represent
the actual order of promotion as opposed to
the actual rank:

Six double squares (vertical) = Moffs

Three double squares = Flag Officers

Two double squares = Command Officers

Four horizontal squares = Junior Officers

One double square = Warrant Officers

No insignia = Ensign

The actual uniforms used probably make more sense
in making sense of the ranks used and clear up
much of the confusion quoted above, it should
be remembered that each sector could cover
anywhere from a million to maybe over a trillion
troops and personnel. Duties are given for each
uniform along with typical ranks:

White = Grand Admiral, Sector over-commander

Grey = Moff, Sector governor

Olive = General, General staff

Black = Lieutenant to Commander, Navy line officer

Pale/Creamy Grey = Staff Corporal to Senior Warrant
Officer, Technical staff

Armour (black) = Corporal and above, Specialists

Armour (white) = Enlisted, Infantry

Ranking System of the Galactic Empire

The quoted ranks fit quite well with modern navies
i.e.

Grand Admiral,
Grand Moff,
Moff,
Marshall= Fleet Admiral

General= Admiral
Colonel= Vice Admiral
Major= Rear Admiral

Commander= Commodore
Fleet Captain= Captain
Captain= Commander

Lieutenant= Lieutenant-Commander
Senior Warrant Officer= Lieutenant
Master Warrant Officer= Ensign

Warrant Officer= Senior Chief Petty Officer
Sergeant= Master Chief Petty Officer
Staff Corporal= Chief Petty Officer

Corporal= Petty Officer
Trooper= Enlisted

Anarchy, crime and punishment and The Culture

Arguably, any crime in a post-scarcity or truly anarchic society would be one of passion and arguably thus a form of temporary insanity to be treated thusly.

Otherwise, or under the same logic, in the Culture I guess if someone really pissed a lot of people off (by, for example murdering someone) then a group of Minds or well-meaning sentients etc could arrange to have that person relocated but not banished from society per se.

Best short anarchist answer on the issue, although I would say that with Contact the Culture does have a government/state of sorts dealing with 'foreign' affairs only (and interfering with Culture Citizens when considered necessary to continue smooth running of said 'foreign' affairs), perhaps the mirror image or polar opposite of a so-called watchman or minimal state with some prisons and police but little else.

In my previous post
http://legalsmeagol.blogspot.com/2010/02/star-trekthe-next-generation-and-deep.html
I described the following 'non-commissioned' chains of
command for the different Starfleet branches:

Command
1.Lieutenant (junior grade)
2.Ensign
3.Yr 4 cadet
4.Yr 3 cadet
5.Yr 2 cadet
6.Yr 1 cadet

Engineering and Security
1.Lieutenant
2.Chief Petty Officer
3.Lieutenant (junior grade)
4.Petty Officer
5.Ensign
6.Engineering or Security Rating


Science and Medical
1.Lieutenant-Commander
2.Lieutenant
3.Lieutenant (junior grade)
4.Ensign
5.Enlisted First Class
6.Enlisted Second Class

however, the geek that I am has realised that there are
no appearances of Lieutenant (junior grade)
for the Engineering/Security branch, and that the writers of
'Deep Space Nine' added the ranks of 'Senior' and 'Master'
CPO making the previous estimation of comparative ranks
questionable.


[Updated Engineering/Sec c-of-c:
1.Lieutenant (=Master Chief Petty Officer?)
2.Senior Chief Petty Officer
3.Chief Petty Officer
4.Ensign
5.Petty Officer
6.Engineering or Security Rating]

Of course,ST is rarely entirely consistent
but these points do need to be made.

Certainly, Command and Science/Medical can be compared
as follows:

1.Lieutenant (junior grade)
2.Lieutenant-Commander [Sci/M]
3.Lieutenant [Sci/M]
4.Lieutenant (junior grade)[Sci/M]
5.Ensign
6.Yr 4 cadet
7.Yr 3 cadet
8.Yr 2 cadet
9.Yr 1 cadet
10.Enlisted First Class
11.Enlisted Second Class

and the Engineering and Security ranks can thus be added
in a more simplified fashion in comparison with the other
ranks as follows (if certain ranks are considered otherwise
equal):

1.Lieutenant (junior grade) [C]
=Lieutenant-Commander [Sci/M]
=Master Chief Petty Officer
{roughly equivalent to:Regimental Sergeant-Major}

2.Lieutenant [Sci/M]
{Sergeant-Major}

3.Lieutenant (junior grade)[Sci/M]
{Warrant Officer (Class One)}

4.Senior Chief Petty Officer
{Warrant Officer (C2)}

4.Ensign [C]=Chief Petty Officer
{Staff Sergeant}

5.Ensign [E/S]=Ensign [Sci/M]
{Sergeant}

6.Yr 4 cadet
=Petty Officer
{Acting Sergeant}

7.Yr 3 cadet
=Engineering/Security Rating
{Corporal}

8.Yr 2 cadet
=Enlisted First Class
{Lance Corporal}

9.1st Year cadet
=Enlisted Second Class
{Private}

This is also more consistent with the command structure
in 'Deep Space Nine'

Star Trek:The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine

A first commment I would suggest that the 'Star Treks' portrayed
show roughly three or four different 'timelines', basically
depending on whether you include "Enterprise" (a.k.a "Shitterprise")
or not.

The 'first', introduced by Next Gen fully and expanding on events
in TOS, describes the 'Trills' as being a relatively unknown race,
presumably new to the Federation, and the peace/alliance between
the UFP and the Klingon Empire as being also a relatively recent
development, following various conflicts between the Klingons
and Romulans of which the Federation was not a part of (and
who presumably would directly or indirectly aid an ally).

The second is more developed and could probably be considered
canon as it concerns characters in 'TOS' and 'DS9' who are
present in "The Undiscovered Country", referring to 'Curzon
Dax' (a Trill Federation ambassador) and his participation
in the signing of a peace treaty between the Klingons and
the Federation 70-odd years previously.

What can be made (rough) sense of is the relationship
between 'commisioned' and 'non-commissioned' ranks
in Starfleet, basically assuming that the rank of
'Ensign' for all three divisions are equivalent
but this changes until the apparent 'proper'
commissioned ranks of 'Lieutenant' (Commmand),
'Lieutenant-Commander' (Engineering and Security)
and 'Commander' (Medical and Science )

Thus, three 'non-commissioned' chains of command
can be surmised for the three divisions (cadet refers
to all Starfleet cadets);

Command
1.Lieutenant (junior grade)
2.Ensign
3.Yr 4 cadet
4.Yr 3 cadet
5.Yr 2 cadet
6.Yr 1 cadet

Engineering and Security
1.Lieutenant
2.Chief Petty Officer
3.Lieutenant (junior grade)
4.Petty Officer
5.Ensign
6.Engineering or Security Rating


Science and Medical
1.Lieutenant-Commander
2.Lieutenant
3.Lieutenant (junior grade)
4.Ensign
5.Enlisted First Class
6.Enlisted Second Class
; with 'Command' apparently outranking 'E/S' and 'M/Sci'
in the overall chain-of-command, so a rough comparison
with Terran commissioned and non-commissioned ranks
can be given:

1.Captain=Colonel

2.Commander [C]=Lieutenant-Colonel

3.Commander [E/S]=Major

4.Lieutenant-Commander [C]=Captain

5.Lieutenant-Commander [E/S]=1st Lieutenant

6.Lieutenant [C]=2nd Lieutenant

7.Lieutenant (junior grade) [C]=Regimental Sergeant-Major

8.Lieutenant [E/S]=Sergeant-Major

9.Lieutenant-Commander [Sci/M]=Senior Warrant Officer

10.Chief Petty Officer=Warrant Officer (Class One)

11.Lieutenant (junior grade) [E/S] /Lieutenant [Sci/M]
=Warrant Officer (C2)

12.Petty Officer=Staff Sergeant

13.Lieutenant (junior grade) [Sci/M]=Sergeant

14.Ensign=Acting Sergeant

15.Yr 4 cadet/Engineering or Security Rating=Corporal

16.Yr 3 cadet/Enlisted First Class=Acting Corporal

17.Yr 2 cadet/Enlisted Second Class=Lance Corporal

18.Yr 1 cadet=Private

....even more Firefly

There are a couple of intriguing issues that are suggested
but were never dealt with directly before the TV series was
cancelled which the "Serenity" movie also alludes to.

It is never explicitly stated just how long Alliance citizens
live, although the Firefly/Serenity wiki gives a life
expectancy of 120 years. This is important because the
Shepherd Book character had a largely unknown but much
different other life where he would have the opportunity
to know much about the workings of unsavoury characters
like Adeleid Niska [sic] and Alliance black operations.

The life of the Operative character and the descriptions
of Companion training, as well as the experiences of
River Tam, implie that it may be common for individuals
to be trained for elite roles from a fairly young age,
before they know the ways of the world.

This is again suggested in the apparent youthfulness
of the Alliance Colonel in 'Train Job'. Maybe certain
qualified individuals are selected for Officer training,
i.e. for a post in the Navy, if male and Companion
training if female? Perhaps the real aim is to train
suitable 'Operative' candidates and the Officer etc
candidates are the vast majority who drop out?

Of course, there are female Officers but they could
have been promoted through the ranks(i.e.:
Marshal [or Enlisted Man] to Corporal to Sergeant to
Ensign to Lieutenant etc). Promotion for Officers
could be dependent on completion of a mission or
a tour of patrol duty so some officers could be
fast-tracked to Colonel in this way.

It could also be that some Alliance citizens have
access to anti-aging technology, which may explain
the Alliance Colonel, as well as the apparent youth
of the Inara character and the doctors in 'Ariel'.

As well as the issues above, it is never revealed
what both Book and Inara are running from.

They should put this on shop windows: Thieves will be persecuted

They should put this on the gates of all prisons:
Do the crime, do the time, learn to do the crime

....more Firefly

A few observations of the Alliance military shows just how vast
Alliance operations are in terms of manpower.

It is commented that there are forty-thousand ("Bushwacked")
Alliance cruisers operating each carrying a probable average
complement of twenty thousand Officers, Federals (i.e. MPs
/Security /Marshals /Troops) and Enlisted men.

This totals 800 million personnel, with, say, one eighth
Officers.

A Commander would probably represent 2000 Federals, if
they are referred to by civilians as Officers ("Safe").
This ratio probably carries on to Alliance ships as it
appears that the common command rank for an Alliance cruiser
is also that of Commander (probably an amalgam of Naval and
Police terminology?). This would probably allow for 2000
Federals and 500 Naval Officers aboard ship and for the rank
of 'Captain' still to be relevant (and presumably still above
'Commander' as the Alliance Commander in "Bushwacked" is
clearly riled by Mal's use of the epithet 'Captain' to describe
himself.

In an overwhelming surveillance state such as the Alliance probably
at least a tenth of its population would be in its employ at some
time in their lives in some form; i.e. in formal and informal
police or military roles as well as the vast health (and
welfare? or at least providing sufficient housing and
[synthetic] food for the population) system in place in
[most of] the Central Planets.

If we assume that each of the nineteen Central Planets has a
population of roughly a billion, with Londinium and Shinhon
having three billion, then we have a probable population of
23 billion; or 2.3 billion Alliance. This nicely tallies
with the size of the Alliance Navy, giving 1.5 billion workers,
Federals, Officers and informants, and bounty hunters of every
description, operating mostly in the Central Planets.

Put another way, if a hundredth of the population at a time
is in the Alliance Navy, then the entire population of the
'Union of Allied Planets' probably totals 80 billion.

Taking Orders From William Shatner's Tupee

Enlisted Training: Lesson One-How to point a phaser
Lesson Two-How to stand around and die

Officer Training: Year One-'Dealing with your delusions'
Year Two-How to talk in and understand
technobabble
Year Three-How to seduce green-skinned
aliens
Final Year-How to hit people with a
double-handed fist

Petty Officer qualifications: Faking your delusions; faking
technobabble; and either
seducing green-skinned aliens
or successfully hitting people
with a double-handed fist.

(2.2.2010)

Immigration has no solution/Who Benefits?

A re-evaluation of the 'Citizen's Income' proposal

With more 'we're more tough than the Tories/BNP (delete
as appropriate)' rhetoric coming from Nu Snaga, I would
modestly suggest a partial solution to citizens /students
/migrants getting or not getting enugh needed financial
support.

Simply put ANYONE over 16 resident in the UK should be
entitled to a CI of, say, 100 pounds sterling a week
SO LONG as they work less than, say, 16 hours per week.
This would include students and would remove the
distinction between economic migrants (bad?), foreign
students (evil??) and asylum seekers (scum of the earth???).

While working less than 16 hours, individuals can apply for
housing benefit or interest-free loans/grants to pay for any
extra costs associated with housing /study /disability
/childcare. This can also apply to MP's instead of them
having wages, and any extra costs could be put on grants or
interest-free loans.

Individuals would only recieve further benefits (i.e.housing
benefits)while working if looking after children, or are
disabled. Migrants would only be able to work full-time
if granted citizenship, with the CI allowing for a decent
standard of living before this is achieved.